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Jeb Bush
Questions, Answers
(Originally published in The Maddux Report and
in Creative Loafing/Tampa in 1992)
By Bob Andelman
Twenty of the Republican candidate's grass-roots supporters
and potential fund-raisers met early on a beautiful May morning
at Tampa's chic Cool Beans Cafe. They picked out Danish, coffee
and juice, exchanged quick introductions and hellos before settling
in for an informal update from the handsome young man who would
be governor, John Ellis "Jeb" Bush.
Bush began with two words of encouragement, "We're ahead!"
before spying a reporter in the audience taking notes and demanding
the breakfast meeting be off-the-record. It did not seem an auspicious
beginning for the one-on-one interview which followed.
As it turned out, the son of the 41st President of the United
States was quite relaxed and effusive during this exclusive,
hour-long interview. If he seemed at ease during the informal
gathering of his supporters, he appeared no less comfortable
defending and expanding upon his campaign platform with the press.
Bush's ideas for changing and improving life in Florida revolve
around two basic, related themes: shrink state government and
return local decision-making powers to local authorities.
On specific issues, the 41-year-old husband, father of three
and South Florida real estate developer doesn't shrink from speaking
his mind clearly. He supports education vouchers so parents could
send their children to the school of their choice, public or
private. He supports creation of charter schools with specific
missions, from fundamental education to intervention programs
for troubled youths. He favors specific limitations on welfare
payments, tied to job training and placement. He proposes a one
trial, one appeal plan for convicted murderers. And as a Valentine
for his beloved real estate and development industry, the former
Florida Secretary of Commerce (1987-88, under the state's last
Republican governor, Bob Martinez) proposes rewriting economically
strapping environmental regulations.
There are actually two Bushes following their father into
politics this season. While Jeb takes his shot in Florida, his
older brother George W. is running for governor of Texas, the
family's home state. Each takes after his father in different
ways; whereas George (a general partner in the Texas Rangers
baseball team) inherited the former president's capacity for
handling matters with a brusque cool, Jeb (a limited partner
in the new Jacksonville Jaguars NFL franchise) is affably smooth
and approachable. He's generally serious, but when he lets slip
a grin, he could light up, well, Texas.
Unfortunately, Jeb Bush, like his father, also dissembles
his speech pattern the more passionate he becomes. But listeners
still understand his message. In spite of its fragmentation.
You're running as an outsider to Tallahassee politics.
What's the most radical thing on your plate?
JEB BUSH: The term radical has changed so much. When
I first heard some of my views were radical, I kind of cringed
because I never really considered myself a radical.(He laughs.)
But now I've gotten accustomed to it because the term isn't as
radical as it once was.
Education policy is perhaps the area I'm best known for my
advocacy of radical change. My welfare proposal is considered
radical as well. It isn't radical in terms of being dangerous
or anything like that. It's just that in the real world, we are
compelled to re-evaluate everything we do.
If you think in real world terms, whether you're a small businessman,
a not-for-profit or family or a major corporation, and reflect
on all the changes you've done, and then look at government,
it's enough to get you angry. Because government doesn't change.
And our education system is a great example of that; our welfare
system as well. They're stuck in the old way. The so-called reforms
are window dressing.
Are your views on education, welfare and crime somewhat
skewed because you're from Miami? Some of your proposals seem
more appropriate for urban areas.
It's a good question. My world view is shaped by my real world
experiences. There's no denying that. But if you go to Jacksonville
and see the welfare system in action, the error rate, the delivery
of food stamps and the benefits, it is the same as it is in Miami.
If you go to Leesburg, you have the same situation.
The need to change the status quo in some parts of the state
may not be as dramatic. Therefore you don't have to change there.
All I'm suggesting is you need to have a structural change so
that meaningful change can happen. We need to change the structure
of how we deliver education to our children. In the places where
people are content with it, it doesn't have to change. This isn't
the way it's done now, which is, "We're going to mandate
change, by golly, we're going to require it, we're going to create
a whole new regulatory system to impose it." I'm suggesting
we do the exact opposite. That we trust parents, teachers and
principals to run the show. And that they keep running the show
the way they are now and if the customers - the parents, students
and teachers - are happy, fine, we're all better off.
My guess is, though, that if you give different options to
parents and teachers to turn children on in different ways you
might find that we would quickly see a changed education system
in Cross City as well as Hialeah.
Here is where we are; here is where we need to be. There's
a canyon in between. We need to build a bridge across to another
way of doing business in education. First is to redefine the
state role. Stop the power-grabbing, rule-making efforts in the
Department of Education and the Legislature, the categorical
funding, the rule-making process. All of this leads to tying
the hands of school administrators and school teachers.
You've got three school-age children. Do they attend private
or . . .
Private.
Do you have any experience with your children going to
public schools?
Ahhhh - nope.
Is it fair for you to be making these decisions for . .
.
Absolutely. Bill and Hillary Rodham Clinton moved up to Washington.
Doesn't matter that they're big shots. The most important thing
on their minds was what? What school is their daughter going
to go to? That's the way it should be. Mothers and fathers' most
important decision they make is where their children go to school.
Well, in today's system the choices are severely limited by people
that don't have the income to make the choice. If they don't
have the income they'll go to where the monopoly, the heavily
politicized, bureaucratized monopoly, tells them to go.
What I'm suggested is, the people that don't have the income
to choose ought to have that right. The very fact that my children
go to private school is only a reflection of the fact that I
have dough to do it. And I don't think that's right.
If you're elected, what's the first thing you will do?
Constrain government.
The first priority is to set the stage for these other changes
by recognizing change will never happen unless you compel it
to. Unconstrained government will never bring about the compelling
need to change.
Will you freeze hiring, lay people off, close departments?
I will use all of the options you describe and others to create
the climate where changes will happen.
Government should grow no faster than our ability to pay for
it. Whether that's in our constitution or not, I believe it.
And I will implement that as governor. I can't dictate how money
will be spent (or) what the priorities are. That's the Legislature's
job. But I can, I believe, in concert with the Legislature, redefine
the scope and size of government. And that would be the first
priority.
The second priority would be to re-prioritize spending to
focus on public safety. We need to continue to build up our prison
system, to revamp our juvenile justice system.
You've taken heat for raising more money than your competition
outside the state. Can you justify that to people?
The question is, if you raise money, are you beholden to the
people who give it to you? If I am, I'm beholden to 25,000 people,
which is five times more than all of my worthy opponents. How
can I be beholden - at some point, the logic of it starts to
diminish. If I'm beholden to a housewife in Des Moines, Iowa,
or a friend of mine from Chicago, Illinois, that was part of
a trade mission when I was secretary of commerce and liked the
way I carried out the interests of the state of Florida, or friends
in Puerto Rico who I campaigned with, shoulder-to-shoulder, in
1980 when my dad was running for president - are those people
somehow going to have some undue influence on me? Hogwash.
The better question would be to ask Jim Smith, Ander Crenshaw
and Tom Gallagher, "What's your average contribution? Where
do you get your money? Is it all from Tallahassee?" When
I answer that question, I have a broad base of support inside
this state. It allows me to dream. It allows me not to be constrained.
I don't owe anything to anybody. I have such a broad base of
support financially, when it's all said and done, my goal is
to have 60 or 70,000 separate contributions. I'm going to be
beholden only to my convictions and my principals.
You worked in Tallahassee before. What do you miss about
the city that draws you back and what do you dread about going
back?
(He laughs.) What do I miss? (Long pause.) I
don't miss much about Tallahassee. But that's more a reflection
of my own personality. I'm mission-driven. I try to keep a sense
of proportion and history in my life. I have fond memories of
Tallahassee but I don't miss anything about it.
What do I dread about going back? Very little. If I'm privileged
enough to be elected and then serve, it would be the most exciting,
most fulfilling thing that I could ever imagine. I would miss
Miami, because that's my hometown. I love Miami. I love the climate,
I love the people. I love the diversity of Miami. But I wouldn't
dread going to Tallahassee. I would look forward to it with great
enthusiasm.
Bob Martinez was roughed up pretty good in Tallahassee.
He had a hard time working with a Democrat-dominated Legislature.
Can a Republican take charge if the legislative majority is still
dominated by Democrats?
I'm aware of the constraints on the power of the office. By
constitution, the office of the governor has less power than
in other states. But I'm also aware of the tremendous non-constitutional
powers that a governor has. If the governor is focused on basic
principles and can communicate those principles to people . .
. I believe fundamental changes can happen, irrespective of the
Legislature.
Now, having said that, would it be easier, would there be
less bloodshed to accomplish this with people who think like
I do in the legislative process? Absolutely. And that is part
of the process. That's why it takes eight years. You have elections
every two years that can change the makeup of the Legislature.
Term limits will do that as well, making it more reflective of
current thinking. And a governor can certainly shape the makeup
of the Legislature as well.
As a developer yourself, what will you do to help real
estate in Florida?
I don't say, "Well, I'm a real estate guy and I think
the real estate industry needs to get a better deal." I
don't go around saying that because I don't necessarily believe
it in the specific that real estate is any different than any
other business. What I do say is there needs to be, in regulation,
a legitimate and sincere appraisal of the economic impacts of
regulation. But if you look at the documents measuring economic
impact, it's a farce, a joke. There's no thoughtful appraisal
of this so we never have a cost-benefit for regulations or environmental
policies that are crafted. They are well-intended but are dealt
with in a vacuum. That would probably help the real estate business.
Private property rights, I think, need to be embedded in our
constitution or legislatively, one of the two. The right to own
property is protected, it's part of our Bill of Rights. I think
it ought to be protected in the post-modern era where government
extends its influence now way beyond our Founding Fathers' wildest
dreams, mandating and regulating the use of private property.
The constant pressures being brought on real estate - user fees,
transaction taxes and licensing fees - like all businesses, people
are nickeled and dimed to death. It is, again (he sighs)
well-intentioned efforts to try to implement public policy but
in an unconstrained way. If you constrained government, I think
it would be easier for people in the real estate business to
make ends meet.
Some of the industry has had a tough time adapting to concurrency,
comp plans, etc. Are there any aspects of these that you would
want to go backwards on?
I hope it wouldn't be defined as "backwards" because
that's kind of a losing position to me. No one wants to go backwards
on something.
I think redefining the state role in the growth management
process is a progressive act, not a regressive
one. That's my point. And I do advocate sheering the powers of
the water management boards and the DCA and the DEP as it relates
to the growth management process.
I guess I trust people more than most folks in government
do. And I trust communities more than state government does.
And I think it's important to solve problems - it is tough enough
to solve problems in a political/public context already. All
these competing interests, the press - the system we created
is hard to solve problems in. There are reasons for that, some
of which are important - the public's right to know. Then to
make it more difficult by taking the problem-solving process
and trying to do it at the state level rather than the local
level makes it near impossible. Growth management is perhaps
one of the best areas where this occurs. How does Tallahassee
really know what's in the best interests of Hillsborough County?
I've talked to folks in the county government here - very few
places in the country have a man with Mr. Karl's experience and
talent. There's no one in Tallahassee that can match that guy.
And the county manager in Pinellas County is a man of extraordinary
experience and abilities as well. As I go around, I find the
folks in local government are capable of determining land use
policies and therefore the future of their communities. And I
would work to push responsibility down to the local level and
away from Tallahassee. Absolutely.
I consider that to be a progressive act that is protective
of Florida's future. Florida - we need a vision statement. In
the real world, we have them all the time. I mean, even our families
- we may not put it on the wall the way we do in business but
people focus on things like that. In government, we don't. In
our state, we don't. My belief is that Florida should be a state
of diverse and prosperous communities. It is a reflection of
who we are. It matches the context and texture of our state.
Our state has got great communities and they are diverse. We've
got to focus on making them all prosperous. That's the role of
state government: find ways for prosperity, in the long run,
to be the constant. That will happen better by allowing communities
to shape their vision of what their land use processes are, what
their social service delivery system is, how their schools look.
That does shape communities more than anything else.
Is it ironic or intentional that you're calling for a "vision
statement?" That, of course, is something people felt your
father didn't understand the need for. Is it something you learned
from his campaign?
No. I'll tell you about my dad's so-called lack of vision.
His lack of vision in Washington - if you don't have the vision
of the elite, the guys that run the show, you don't have vision.
And I think that, more than anything else, described the lack
of a "vision thing." In Washington, if you believe
in certain things and it goes against the will of the combination
of the folks that call the shots there - and it's not the president,
except in foreign affairs, there the president does have a disproportionate
say and there my dad, I think, had a pretty clear vision that
people did agree with. There, if your vision isn't the one they
like, you don't have one. It's totally discarded.
Look, I'm not - there's a light year, two light years, between
1992 and 1994. 1992 - its value is to learn from the lessons
of history. To relive '92, to fight past wars - it is not my
intention of giving up everything I have, being away from my
family - that happened. That's over with. It's important to learn
from it; there are lessons there in terms of governance as well
as politics and I intend to use 'em. But I'm really focused.
The comparisons between myself and my dad are inevitable because
of the uniqueness of the mission I'm on. I accept them and I
tolerate them because it's, y'know, I guess it's interesting.
But it has little to do with my thinking, how I think things
through. It doesn't relate to, well, what would my dad have done?
What about comparisons between you and your brother George?
Both of you are running for governor of a state at the moment
and both of you are involved in owning pro sports teams. Are
there other similarities, differences?
We're very different personality-wise. But, you know, we're
brothers so there's comparisons as well. I think our motivations
might be similar. My brother is feisty. He has a quicker temper
than I do. He's earthier (He laughs.). He's older.
He's shaped by different thinking.
Just coincidence you're both running this year?
Oh, yeah, it is.
Were you already on the campaign trail when he decided
to run?
Yes. I started earlier, much earlier. I made up my mind I
was going to run in January of '93. I start campaigning, effectively,
half-time between early March and July and full-time on July
1st. I don't recall exactly when I got the word from my brother
but it was after that. I'm not sure exactly when he made up his
mind, but we came at this from a totally different track. And
his approach has been very different. He's running as a different
person; the state of Texas is a totally different state than
the state of Florida. It's an interesting thing, I'm not denying
it. We're both sons of the same former president and we're both
running for governor. I'm not sure that's ever happened before.
How are you and your brother splitting up your parents'
attention with two campaigns going?
I don't know what my mom and dad are doing for George. But
when you take it in view of the full campaign it's very limited,
for a couple reasons. One, there's a balance that I'm aware of,
that you need to maintain. I didn't ask my parents to come in
and help me out until I clearly established myself as the front-runner
for the Republican nomination in every aspect, both in terms
of the advocacy of powerful ideas that people have responded
to, and out-raising the other candidates in terms of money raised.
From the beginning I've out-raised all of them by a significant
amount, and by the polling data that other people have done and
that we've done. So I wanted to establish myself first. And even
with that, my opponents will say, well, my mommy and daddy are
making it happen, which is ludicrous. But that allows them to
vent their frustrations on me like I'm giving them therapy and
it's important.
Will we see more of them as the Republican primary draws
closer?
No. Maybe one time, I don't know. There has to be a proper
balance to this. They will come and campaign for me again. I
want them to and I'm sure they'll want to help. But I think it's
important to do it the right way.
My mom and dad have done this since prehistoric times. Let's
give them a break. This is their chance to do things that, because
they've been serving their country, they haven't had a chance
to do. And I don't want to impose on them for that reason as
well.
My mother and my dad will play a role in the campaign.
They'll help me out.
What's the best advice either of them has given you, for
life in general or politics in particular?
Well, there's too many to repeat. "Being a parent isn't
all the big things, it's the little things." "A good
parent is consistent and repetitive and uncompromising in the
transference of values." Little things like shaking people
with a firm handshake and look them in the eye. Being polite
and respectful of others. Or, "Open a door for someone that's
your elder." Starting from that sense of civility all the
way to what is right and what is wrong, how do you measure success
in life? Those were all done in little tiny increments. My parents
passed the test of good parents. Believe me, they have been spectacular
in that regard.
In terms of politics, I guess the best advice I ever got from
my dad was when I was thinking of running for office in 1986.
He asked me, in a rapid-fire series of questions: "What
happens if you win? Are your children ready to go to school in
Washington?" I was thinking about running for Congress.
"Is Columba ready to be the wife of a congressman?"
The questions weren't related to Congress, they were related
to life. And what made it clear was, are you abdicating your
responsibility as a husband and a father to do this? It was a
subtle - but very effective - way to slap me across the face
and say, (He affects his father's tone of voice.) "Boy,
don't be a fool." (He laughs.) I thought about 30
seconds and realized no matter what the polls might have said
or the strategies, I near completely forgot there are three or
four hurdles you have to jump over before you aspire to something
that's a sacrifice for your family. That, my dad reminded me
of.
Sidebar
Regional Focus
During the course of this interview, candidate Bush was asked
to single out regional issues or problems he expects to face
if elected.
Tampa Bay area: Water use. The allocation of water,
how to create incentives to save it, re-use options, conservation
options. How do we allow the agricultural interests to continue
to provide its major contribution to the economy here? How do
people that live here get to use water? Disproportionately, I
seem to hear that more and more here than in other places.
Orlando and Central Florida: Tourist issues are critical
there because of its dominance to the economy. People connect
more in Orlando the crime issue to economic livelihood. That's
pretty unique there. Crime is an issue pretty much across the
state but not as it relates to "How am I going to put food
on the table?"
Jacksonville: Jacksonville's got a real focus on crime
issues as well, particularly juvenile crime. And I think the
people on the borders understand the business climate issue better
because there's a more visible direct loss of jobs to the neighboring
states. Jacksonville has always had a main focus on economic
issues: workers' comp, taxing, spending. Environmental issues
- the paper mills there have done a spectacular job of reinvesting
in equipment to lessen pollution but there's constant threats
from regulations making it hard for those really high value-added
jobs to stay in place.
And of course, how the Jaguars are going to do is a big issue.
(He grins.)
Tallahassee: (He laughs.) Tallahassee is a government
town. They're going to be directly impacted by who the next governor
is. The general attitude in Tallahassee is it's a no-growth state,
a no-growth kind of community, and they certainly are going to
get it if I'm elected governor. Because I don't think
government should grow to the extent that it has. That may not
assuage any of their fears, but ... I think there should be some
emphasis on diversifying the economy in Tallahassee. It's a great
place to live; nice setting. They've got a good quality of life,
highly trained folks. It should be a place that would draw value-added
jobs.
The Panhandle: The biggest issue there is growth and
the defense industry. The two big issues I see are the balance
between environmental and economic growth concerns. Because the
Panhandle, parts of it, at least, between Pensacola and Panama
City, along the shoreline, there appears to me to be long-term
growth. The impact of that on the infrastructure and the environment
are going to become increasingly important.
The Panhandle is blessed with a lot of military, both retirees
as well as military bases. It's very important for this state
to prepare for the upcoming base closure commission efforts.
Nothing is sacred anymore as it relates to defense spending.
It's the one place the government does seem able to cut.
And the governor gets to be on the forefront to help these communities
defend their interests.
Southwest Florida - Fort Myers, Naples: The issues
are related to growth and education. How do you build the school
system? Growth brings about the expansion of government in lots
of ways. I think they've got their act together. You see how
communities are being shaped by the attitudes in communities,
and how, if they had more power, it would be even more that way.
There's a real difference between Collier, Lee and Charlotte
counties. The culture is different, income levels are different,
the demographics are different. There's an emerging identity
in each one.
South Florida: Crime is the No. 1 issue. Immigration.
Water.
Water is not an issue that is discussed around kitchen tables
as much as it will be. Water is one of the emerging issues of
the '90s. In the next four or five years it's going to become
apparent that how we conserve, how we distribute and use water
is antiquated. We've got challenges ahead. And in South Florida
it's more particularly acute because of the Everglades. The drainage
issue - in Southeast Florida we have created a community of 4-1/2
million people. And when God created South Florida, I don't think
there was an expectation that that many people would be inhabiting
it.
end
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express written permission of the author.
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